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Post by JoeC on Nov 30, 2011 11:29:28 GMT -8
No other country would take them in except the Israeli's and they are bent on killing all Israeli's
makes for a crazy world
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 2, 2011 23:54:32 GMT -8
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Post by JoeC on Dec 3, 2011 7:47:07 GMT -8
I'm of course speaking of today, and the Israeli's are there to stay. Jordan and Syria both have evicted their own arab brothers from their country so where else could the Palestinians go? I think it was more than enough to give them what they did get but they want it all even if it means killing the Israeli's to get it
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 3, 2011 23:09:56 GMT -8
you have any links to what your talking about joe because i'm afraid your not making much sense to me. palistinians didn't need to go anywhere they have always lived in palistine, it's just palistine has gotten smaller and smaller over the years and there's little wonder they are not very happy, how would you like to live in a place totally cut off from the world and have everything that's allowed into your country be dictated by a foreign country, which is exactly what israel does to palistine. there's little wonder to me that palistinians would harbour hate and resentment towards the israelies. don't forget at one time all palistinain arabs, jews, christians, muslims, used to live there in harmony. it was outside intervention that caused all the problems we see today there.
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Post by JoeC on Dec 4, 2011 6:47:15 GMT -8
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 4, 2011 18:54:47 GMT -8
i think you need to read up on some history joe, jews lived in arab towns in palistine from the 7th century up to the 20th, it was the zionists who got greedy and displaced the palistine arabs who had lived in peace and accepted them into their country. www.ifamericaknew.org/history/origin.htmlwww.ifamericaknew.org/history/origin.html#earlysome quotes from that link. “In 1948, at the moment that Israel declared itself a state, it legally owned a little more than 6 percent of the land of Palestine.. “The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, ‘there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.’ He then asked that only Jews should be allowed to bear arms.” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.” Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.” sorry but however you want to look at it you have to admit the zionists were no better than the nazis and took what they wanted by force alone, i wonder if i bought 6% of your state and then declared my own state and took another 65% by force you'd be happy?. not to worry tho for in the end the meek shall inherit the earth.
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Post by JoeC on Dec 5, 2011 3:45:44 GMT -8
Your whole premise assumes that the Israeli's did not occupy Israel before 7th century? You must be kidding, or is 700A.D. just a point in time that you just grabbed out of the air? The Jewish temple existed up to 70A.D. when the Roman army destroyed it, but then that was an all Arab area back then....right?
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Post by moon on Dec 5, 2011 4:00:33 GMT -8
You have to understand- and accept- that modern international law rules the day, not historic claims to territory which are, frankly, inventions. Even the bible has been edited by various factions over time. Modern law states, and it is accepted, that the State of Israel has a legal right to exist. It also states, and it is accepted, that the Zionists have illegally occupied large areas of Palestine which were always intended to be the Palestinian State. The Zionists must relinquish all of that misappropriated territory in order for there to be any peaceful solution. Almost the entire world, outside of the US/Zionist sphere, opposes Zionist expansionism. It cannot win. Intransigence and dummy-spitting will not secure Israel's future so they had just better toe the line now rather than have solutions forced upon them later.
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Post by JoeC on Dec 5, 2011 7:43:40 GMT -8
I would truly like to hear your theory on that idea, where did you get this information?
looked up what Zionists means,
I can imagine when all these Jewish Zionists are done away with....then they can start on American Zionists to be put on the jihad hit lists. this Democratic Zionist idea must be stopped
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 5, 2011 7:52:13 GMT -8
Your whole premise assumes that the Israeli's did not occupy Israel before 7th century? You must be kidding, or is 700A.D. just a point in time that you just grabbed out of the air? The Jewish temple existed up to 70A.D. when the Roman army destroyed it, but then that was an all Arab area back then....right? ?? my whole premise as you put it assumes no such thing.. “Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. you really should read that link joe, it was written by jews. “The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.” 73 years out of 5000? now doesn't that seem a stretch to you? thinking because they ruled the land for 73 years eons ago it is theirs and always has been? i won't bother copying any more paragraphs, but again i do suggest you read the link if you truly want to know the history of the region. www.ifamericaknew.org/history/origin.html#early you want to know about zionists joe, what do you think about this? “As late as 1941, the Zionist group LEHI, one of whose leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, was later to become a prime minister of Israel, approached the Nazis, using the name of its parent organization, the Irgun(NMO)..[The proposal stated:] ‘The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian Pd bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German nation of power in the Near East...The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany’s side’...The Nazis rejected this proposal for an alliance because, it is reported, they considered LEHI’s military power ‘negligible.’ “ Allan Brownfield in “The Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs”, July/August 1998. you serious joe? how many different versions of the bible are there? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha
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Post by JoeC on Dec 5, 2011 8:34:21 GMT -8
it looks like Zionism can have several different meanings en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZionismI suppose it depends on what view you wish to use, you can use it for hate and killing or you can use it for the betterment of peoples Terry...your link is of false statements historically. It's so bad that I'm not even going to waste my time on it. They apparently left out the time of Northern Kingdom and Judah, and there were 19 kings in the north and 20 in Judah, this does not include the time before the split of the North and Judah, which was the time of Saul, David and his son Saulemon as kings. and your saying all of this took place in only 73 yrs??? Do you honestly believe that? David himself lived for 70yrs Please educate yourself or seek others that know of jewish history without a bias
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 5, 2011 9:18:20 GMT -8
it looks like Zionism can have several different meanings en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZionismI suppose it depends on what view you wish to use, you can use it for hate and killing or you can use it for the betterment of peoples Terry...your link is of false statements historically. It's so bad that I'm not even going to waste my time on it. They apparently left out the time of Northern Kingdom and Judah, and there were 19 kings in the north and 20 in Judah, this does not include the time before the split of the North and Judah, which was the time of Saul, David and his son Saulemon as kings. and your saying all of this took place in only 73 yrs??? Do you honestly believe that? David himself lived for 70yrs Please educate yourself or seek others that know of jewish history without a bias seems you can't even read what's copied and pasted in front of you joe..so i'll try again. [Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.” the dates are backed up by the bible too joe. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_JudahAccording to the Bible, the kingdom of Judah resulted from the break-up of the United kingdom of Israel (1020 to about 930 BC) but his efforts were too late and Israel's unfaithfulness caused God to permit the kingdom's destruction by the Babylonians in c.587/586 BCE. so you see it's not full of false statements, and it seems to me the only bias is coming from you, sorry you don't like the truth but the piece was written by JEWS so why would they be biased on the history of jews in the area? here's a link that tells you about jews for justice :- jfjfp.com/?page_id=2
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Post by JoeC on Dec 5, 2011 10:08:44 GMT -8
I see... so now it's 414 yrs instead of 73yrs? You might want to do more research. ya forgot about the part when the Babylonians took the Israelites captive and destroyed Israel, then after 70yrs the Persians overtook the Babylonians and the Persians allowed the Israelites back to their homeland to rebuild it. They had possession from that time 586/587 B.C. (as you yourself state) to 70A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, and they fled and remained gone (as a nation of peoples) until 1948. The Bible clearly states that Israel will become a nation again before the end of times. It also states that their temple will be back too. I have no idea how that is going to happen because the Dome of the Rock is sitting where the temple originally was.
You can not or should not believe everything you read on line. If we go all the way back to the beginning, you'll see that God gave that land to Abraham, Abraham is the father of both the Arab and Israeli nations. The Israelites took possession about 4000 yrs ago after they got out of Egypt
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Post by terry1966 on Dec 5, 2011 10:56:48 GMT -8
you straying off topic joe? we talking about the bible and your belief in it here or palistine and the palistinian peoples right to be there? do you think only israel and jews have the right to be there. the piece said if you bothered to read it.. The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods in ancient Palestine “The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.” Illene Beatty, “Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.” so the period the zionists based their claim on the territory was at most about 414 years. to use your argument tho God gave that land to Abraham, Abraham is the father of both the Arab and Israeli nations that means it's the palistinians land as much as the israelis.. and both arab and jew should live there.. now why is it the zionists think no arab should live there? and persecute all arabs living there like moon said israel needs to pull back to it's 1967 borders. here's justice for jews home page :- jfjfp.com/try reading an unbiased jewish perspective on the injustices carried out on the palistinian people, even they say peace needs the ending of israelis illegal occupation and settlement.. another link you probably didn't read :- jfjfp.com/?page_id=2WE BELIEVE THAT 1 Peace in the Middle East will only come about with mutual recognition and respect and must be seen as just by both sides. 2 Peace requires the end of illegal occupation and settlement. 3 Violence against civilians is unacceptable. 4 Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment. 5 It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians’ human rights. 6 The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli state’s human-rights abuses. 7 A lasting peace must be seen as just by both sides. 8 Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine. IF YOU AGREE then link up with over one thousand six hundred other Jews in Britain who make up Jews for Justice for Palestinians The Torah teaches: ‘Justice, justice, you shall pursue’ (Deuteronomy 16:20). To secure a lasting settlement to the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis so they can live in peace and security, thrive side by side, and co-operate together, Jews today are obligated to pursue justice on behalf of both peoples.” RABBI ELIZABETH TIKVAH SARAH don't believe me believe a rabbi.
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Post by JoeC on Dec 5, 2011 12:54:57 GMT -8
Getting a little defensive? It can not be helped, you can not possibly discuss the Israeli and Palestinians issue without using references, The bible is not being preached to you. I am only using it for references
Where have I stated that the Palestinians did not deserve a place to live? I asked in my op as to why the Palestinians want to kill. They are not aiming the guns and bombs at Zionists, but indiscriminately at women and children in malls and public places.
Through out history land is gained by war. The Romans took the U.K. by war, We got our independence through war. We did not hide hide like cowards and kill women and children with bombs strapped to our bellies. We fought like men face to face and knew who you were shooting at. If the Palestinians are so angry about this, then they need to get their army together and fight it out with the Israeli's and get it over. Terror actions only bring on more killing from both sides. It's very stupid
nope, didn't read your propaganda and I'm not going either.
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